Kratom, Addiction, and Overkill
Jun 27, 2008 I Kratom Addiction.Imagine going to your Doctor regarding your codeine addiction, and receiving a prescription for methadone; or, better yet, getting some vicodin to alleviate your horrible ibuprofen habit. Sound ridiculous? Well, while most people would recognize this as incompetent malpractice, I recently read a post concerning a person addicted to Kratom, who was subsequently prescribed Suboxone (“Bupe”) as treatment. WTF? This is like being freely prescribed valium for a chocolate addiction, in other words, utterly ridiculous and complete overkill.
While Kratom addiction is entirely possible, it is generally mute in comparison to even the most freely prescribed pain medications. However, for someone who does not know the evils of legal drug addiction, and especially narcotic abuse, Kratom withdrawal can certainly impede on ones daily life. Nevertheless, anyone abusing Kratom already knows some truths inherent to the plant.
- It can be mildly addictive if taken regularly; and if done so, it is much less addictive than most, if not all, other opiates. Of course, Please be warned: This is not to suggest that it is painless, in fact, not calibrated against other opiates, Kratom withdrawal can cause a state of anxious pain for several days. Nevertheless, most people who are not opiate users, legal or illicit, do not typically find Kratom a useful experience.
- Secondly, it definitely has a ceiling effect of diminishing returns, where taking more is not pleasurable, and will ultimately cause a negative reaction.
- And lastly, its short half life renders withdrawals ephemeral when compared to methadone, or even milder opiates like hydrocodone.
While Kratom is the lesser of many evils, it should NEVER be abused or taken regularly unless to ease withdrawals in an emergency situation or to taper off the various more serious opiates. However, when compared to Buprenorphine (Subutex/Suboxone) it is the safest most manageable alternative to dangerous prescription or illicit drugs. Why anyone would prescribe Suboxone to a Kratom user can only be attributed to naiveté for two major reasons.
Firstly, Subutex is almost certainly causing overdoses, unlike any reported case of Kratom use. In fact, just several months past, the U.S. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration decided to start tracking Suboxone deaths due to overdose. Obviously, there is a cause for concern considering the administration is looking into Subutex, when commonly known killers are not attracting the same amount of attention, such as Methadone. Certainly, more than 170,000 drug addicts that are currently taking the medication have something to worry about, unlike any user of Kratom.
Overdoses in drug addiction patients are typically caused by mixing the treatment drug with an illicit narcotic. For instance, the methadone patient, who decides to score heroin, to get even higher, is a likely candidate for a potential overdose. Subutex, like methadone, will likely be found to cause death in a similar drug mixing manner. In contrast, the best quality of Kratom is its effective blunting of the mu opioid receptor; in other words, it renders other opiates ineffective, almost unpleasurable. Just search the web for instances of this phenomena, especially concerning the most popular opiate pain medications, such as hydrocodone and oxycontin.
It is depressing to consider anyone, never mind a Doctor, to believe that Kratom use is serious enough to warrant an opioid treatment. I do sympathize with Doctors who have to withstand opiate abusers, and also understand the many sincere pain sufferers who are not finding adequate relief. However, to treat a coffee addiction with cocaine is not going to do the patient any good, causing serious harm well into the future and risking a potential overdose situation without any reason whatsoever.
M Zupcak Says:
Dear author - I found KratomPlateau through Google by searching “kratom half life”. I am currently on probation and in a drug treatment program. In my treatment group last week, I admitted to using Kratom to my counselor. The entire treatment center is freaked out and want me to take suboxone to detox off it. There’s no chance I’m taking that stuff. The reason I am leaving this message is because I’m wondering if you know the exact half life for Kratom/mytrogyna speciosa. The lab they send the urine to doesn’t test for Kratom, but I’m afraid they could potentially have a lab technician search through my urine with a microscope for any traces of the drug as a precaution. I feel my rights are being infringed since it is a legal substance. Unfortunately, one of the terms of my probation states “Probationer must abstain from any mood altering substances unless prescribed by a doctor” and even though no US or NY State government agency has classified Kratom as a “mood-altering substance”, my P.O. is telling me I cannot take Kratom anymore. If the half-life is short enough I will continue to use Kratom occasionally, like on weekends. Can you let me know? I left my e-mail address in the space provided. Thanks for sticking up for kratom users, it’s a very good drug.
Jun 27, 2008, 2:19 amSue Says:
I know several people who have sucesfully quit opiates with teh help of kratom. If you have any storys about this… email this site and they will publish: http://www.kratom-world.com/
Jun 27, 2008, 12:39 amJunkhead Says:
Hmm, I would hope that the post is not true. I mean, as in the poster was just trying to get people going, which it seems it has to a point.
I am a long time (on and off over 20 years, more on the off) opium addict. I found Kratom by chance via searching the web and gave it a try to help me kick.
I can say that it took a long time to actually find a source of Kratom that worked at all. But, once I did find a source of high quality Kratom, it made kicking almost painless. I could even live my life, work, play, etc. with no problems at all.
The problem I have with Kratom, is it’s expense! Compared to any opium I can get, it’s about 15 to 20 times more expensive.
I don’t use opium for fun or recreation, I have used it most of my life because it’s about the only thing I have ever found that helps me deal with my overloaded anxiety levels. I do not use it to “get high”.
Once I found Kratom, I could not believe how well it worked for my anxiety and pain, and with almost no effects at all. In other words, for me, it’s impossible to get “high” from, yet it does everything I need to keep me in the game of life and acting “human” if you will.
Like I said, if it wasn’t for the expense, Kratom would totally replace any opium use whatsoever for me. I wish people could get a prescription from a doctor for this stuff so my insurance would pay for this, I am so tired of trying this med and that med (via my doctor of course, and he’s getting tired of it too).
Anyway, if one doesn’t have this strange anxiety like I have that nothing seems to relieve like Opium does, and they’re wanting to kick, I would highly recommend about a weeks worth of Kratom, it will make all the difference in the world.
Hope this helps someone,
Jun 27, 2008, 9:43 amJunkhead
Samantha Says:
I was wondering if anyone could please helping me I’m addicted to opium and trying to stop today and a friend told me about bali kratom leaf…. and told me it would help me… so I bought some and received it today… but a little scared to try it . Have one ever took this and it worked for them… just need some help asap going throught withdraws today…. please any help
Jun 27, 2008, 1:26 amshawn Says:
ANYONE INTERESTED IN THE VERY BEST KRATOM ON THE WEB NEEDS TO GO THE KRATOM KING AND TRY THE MAENG DA STRAIN IT IS HANDS DOWN THE MOST POTENT STRAIN AVAILABLE!! IT IS A THAI STRAIN GENETICALY ENGINEREED FOR MAXIUM POTENCY.
Jun 27, 2008, 2:43 amRane Says:
I stopped taking sub after being on it for over a year because I was totally unable to laugh while I was on it and I wanted the fun back in my life. Little did I know that sub detox can last months. Thanks God for Kratom - it is the reason that I was able to stop taking sub. The only downside of that is that I do feel physically addicted to Kratom, but I know the withdrawal will be negligible compared to heroin.PT or oxy wd.
Jun 27, 2008, 1:08 amJayme Says:
Wow… well this post is older than dirt but I’m still throwing my 2 cents in anyway.
First of all Suboxone has been a life saver for me. I had been hooked on opiates since the age of 16 and my life was near shambles at the age of 24. I’m still on it today and plan to take it for the rest of my life. You wouldn’t have even recognized me 3 years ago and now I’m able to enjoy my life and hold down a job. The last thing that people on sub need is someone like you shooting your mouth off about it when you clearly know NOTHING.
First of all maybe there is a study on sub o.d. deaths… I don’t know and I’m too lazy to go and find out. But I can tell you that it’s extremely undesirable to o.d. on. It has a ceiling effect and you can only get so high off of it. Hence people on sub’s motto “less is more.” As a matter of fact I only experienced a buzz from it the first week or so of taking it. I’m on 2 mg today and I feel nothing but normalacy when I take it. No buzz, no euphoria. I never have even experienced shallow breathing or tiredness from taking it like I did on methadone or any of the other various meds I was hooked on in the past.
When you are prescribed sub you are actually given a card to put in your wallet in case of an emergency stating that you are on sub and not to be given any painkillers until your sub doctor is reached. It even says “Overdose with buprenorphine alone is very uncommon.” And I’m sure that the makers of Suboxone and Subutex know a hell of a lot more than you do about the medication. And if it’s taken properly LIKE IT SHOULD BE, I doubt there has been ANY o.d. deaths! I’ve never had the urge to take more and more and more of this medication like I did with other opiates.
I know I may be totally bypassing your entire point for this article but I think that you are being very reckless in stating these things about sub. An addict researching sub may come across your post and have the holy shit scared out of them, therefore not trying the one medication that very WELL may save their lives.
ps As I’m searching the net for more info on Kratom and why it’s still legal, I’m seeing that most people who try it have a very negative and nauseating vomiting experience. Yummy. Not.
Jun 27, 2008, 8:55 pmKratomAddict Says:
Um, you really should know what you’re talking about before you publish articles that tell people that kratom addiction is mild. I question just how addicted you have ever been to the plant.
Now, it’s a wonderful plant if used in moderation, magical, really. And if used smartly it could get one off of opiates. But none of that means that it can’t be highly addictive if misused.
I’ve been abusing kratom for the past year and it has gotten bad. The problem with kratom is that the length of the high is so short, it seems to rush out of your system within twelve hours and by that time I’m getting the shakes, severe headaches, muscle spasms, pain all over my body, hot cold, hot cold, etc… Even worse symptoms than when I was just moderately abusing vicodin (which the kratom got me off of).
I jumped the gun and it was fucking stupid. I’m now paying for it. I do not think the plant should be made illegal, but I do think that you shouldn’t be publishing misinformation like this. It’s this type of misinformation that led to my misuse of the drug.
I’m now talking to a doctor about a possible suboxone treatment. I dream of being able to just take one pill that will tide me over for the whole day, instead of getting shakes and bad depression every two to three hours and then having to dose up. Eventually, that one pill will turn into half a pill and then a quarter and then so on until I’m free of drugs. I can’t wait for the day that drugs no longer rule my life.
The kratom has lost all of its good properties. It no longer gives me much euphoria, no more energy (I’m tired all the time, fall asleep around 7pm every night, wake up shaking and sweating at around 4am. It’s bad. Don’t abuse this drug. Is it as bad as heroin? No, no it is not. Methadone? possibly not, the nodding off on that drug is pretty bad. But suboxone is not overkill, that is, if you have abused kratom as much as I have. In the end, it’s the depression that comes from it that is gonna kill me. I would describe it as nearly crippling at points. My life is great. Nobody knows I’m addicted to drugs, I’m doing great in school, I’m on the right path to my career, I have no money issues, I have nothing to be sad about. But when the kratom wears off, I’m liable to just break down randomly. I’ve been sitting in traffic, I get this terrible anxiety and I have to pull over because I’m crying so hard that I can’t see straight. I’ll be walking down the street and have to duck into a bathroom before I totally lose my shit. I’ve been on dates with girls where I am just barely holding on. Somehow I manage to act normal when I need to, but sometimes it just gets so bad- I can feel the floodgates opening into my social life. I’m not going to let that happen.
I hope that you don’t think that I’m being rude here, challenging your article. I felt the same way as you before I discovered the truth for myself. I read reports on kratomforum back when it was up in the addiction section describing what I’m going through right now, and I just thought to myself, “that’s like a one in a million situation. That will never be me”. And now it is.
Anything that alters your brain chemistry is fucking dangerous and you are in denial if you don’t believe that. I just hope that none of you have to experience what I’m going through right now.
PS
I tried suboxone that a friend gave me. It lasted two days straight, no bad feelings, no depression, no anything. I felt clear and normal and like I could finally live my life without kratom and eventually be on my way to a drug free life. That’s the goal.
As for the kratom I use, it’s mostly UEI and the Full Spectrum Tincture. Yeah, the bad shit. The extracts.
I think that anybody just taking bali or even enhanced bali with maybe just a little UEI on the special occasions will be fine. But when the bali stops working for you, it’s time to rethink some shit.
I wish you all the best in life. OP, if you have any questions I left my email for you so feel free to shoot an email off to me, we can discuss this further.
Regards,
Jun 27, 2008, 6:15 pmKratomAddict
Sean Says:
In regards to KratomAddict youre the type of person that brings unwanted attention to the natural herbs and medicines that could help so many. You put yourself in the situation youre in and you deserve what youre getting. Kratom extracts are not the same as plain leaf and if you or anyone else thinks that suboxone is a cure all youre in for a rude awakening once you actually kick suboxone. Being on suboxone all your life is no different than anyother opiate until youre totally off youre still addicted.
Jun 27, 2008, 9:28 pmshawn Says:
I used the maeng da kratom leaf variety multiple times a day for over a year and anyone who says that kratom isn’t addictive is fuckin nuts.I tried to kick it 3 times and was only just sucessful on this last try.The physical symptoms fade a little over a week but the subsequent depression is the worst.It’s been 3 weeks and I’m still having minor muscle aches and anxiety but 10mg of valium helps with this.
Jun 27, 2008, 10:54 pmnotdepressedanymore Says:
As I read all these posts, I am filled with a small amount of trepidation to say anything, but I am feeling a very strong need to voice my opinion about this stuff right now. Those of you who are talking shit about Kratom are basically all saying the same shit - “I took it for a long time and kept pushing the dose to get high until I got to the point of getting sick and now my life sucks”. No shit shirlock, it’s going to happen with anything if you do that, even coffee will make you sick as hell if you take enough of it (did you know Kratom is a cousin to the coffee plant, look it up on wikipedia - it’s all there). As for my experience with Kratom, It has been a lifesaver for me. I only take it to aliviate depression and it has done wonders in over 7 months that which a combined high dose of zoloft and wellbutrin could never accomplish in over 5 years of being on the shit. When I added kratom to the mix - it did wonders for my depression, my life feels normal again (finally). I was never addicted to any opiate drugs, but rather I discovered Kratom while looking for a natural remedy for Depression since the chemicals the doctors were giving me to put in my body were not accomplishing shit. In more than 1/2 a year I take about 20 to 30 CAPSULES - NOT GRAMS a day which comes out to about 7 to 10 grams of PC Bali powder - a big dose for a newbie - but not much at all for a junkie on the shit where they take 20 to 30 grams a day (whew - I cannot imagine doing that much at once). I don’t abuse the stuff, I just take 5 to 7 at a time wait an hour then do it again until I start to feel normal (usually takes about 1 to 1 1/2 hours, I then take 4 or 5 more at a time when I start feeling like shit again - this usually averages to about 30 capsules daily - a capsule weighs less than 1/4 gram including the capsule weight - so doing twice to three times my daily dose all at once - well that must be a nightmare and I feel bad for you guys who are doing that much at once. I never get a “nod’ effect - I don’t get itchy - I do get some energy from it occasionally - but nothing like cocaine as I heard can be the case on lower doses - shit it doesn’t even give me the rush I used to get when I took ephedrine to stay awake over 20 years ago (and I did get hooked on that crap - couldn’t get my ass out of bed without it - needless to say I have not touched that shit for almost 15 years now and it goes without saying that I don’t miss that at all).
Jun 27, 2008, 11:35 pmNonetheless, I don’t know why they are not trying to explore the active ingredients in this plant to treat depression symptoms. The fact that it works makes perfect sense, it’s an mu-opioid agonist (meaning it kicks that receptor into high gear - the opposite being an antagonist which would be something like Naltrexone). Anyone who does some research on this will discover that the mu-opioid receptors heavily affect addiction as well as depression (they seem to go hand in hand). I will never stop taking it - I don’t take enough to hurt myself, just enough to fix my blues. And for the rest of you - quit abusing the shit. If you are taking more than 15 grams in a day - then you need to stop… Period… Please stop fucking this up for the rest of us that can actually benefit from it’s use.
Prev Kratom Addict as of 2 days ago Says:
I know this is an ol forum but I want to know what Kratom did to me. I know people use this to get off opiates but that is not the answer. You are just replacing a drug with another drug… what’s it gonna take for us addicts to be normal with no other drugs even safer ones? I am an addict no matter what I take, Kratom, Suboxone, oxys, percs, methadone, etc. I want to be done! I recently quit a bad methadone habit last year and that was a walk in the park compared to this Kratom withdrawal. I have been taking Kratom for almost a year now and today is the end of my second day detoxing from it and it hurts!!! -OMG It hurts THERE IS A WITHDRAWAL NO KRATOM SELLERS WILL TELL YOU THAT!!!! BTW I plan on being off of opiates for the rest of my life after this. It’s just not worth it. But for the people out there who want to kick the habit just tell yourself when you are quitting c/t (cold turkey) that I am beating this myself!! I feel so strong doing this by myself (my husband is out of town). What made me want to quit is my shipment was cancelled and I started crying the night before wondering what I was going to do without it!!! I stopped and thought, wait a minute I am crying about this!!!???!!! There are so many other things in my life that are far worse than my kratom not coming in on time like clockwork every day or other day. But like I said it is day two without it and it is 4:10 and just a minute ago my anxiety went away. I am told I have 5 more days left of this.
Jun 27, 2008, 8:23 pmI want everyone to know why Kratom SHOULD be a controlled substance. People abuse and having an easy drug to abuse out there is not good. Here is my experience so far:
Time goes by so slow and I can’t sleep a wink. My muscles are hot and cold hot and cold. When I lay down my muscles feel like they HAVE to move no matter what. I drink a couple shots of tequila to help me sleep (which doesn’t work but for 3 or 4 minutes BTW). My emotions are wack I cried because I killed a bug for goodness sake! I cried over a stupid video game -FF8 Love story BTW GREAT GAME. The depression is terrible and sneaks up on you fast. I smoke like a freight train I do not usually smoke like this. BUT THERE IS A POSITIVE!! - I learned a very valuable lesson from this and from any other habits… they aren’t worth it! Your family means so much more and your life means more. What are 10-30 days of detox gonna be compared to what your life is going to be like afterwards?? You will be done! No more addiction. I could have bought 10 ps 3’s maybe even more with the money I have been spending on this crap! I CAN DO THIS.
For anyone who has any addiction there is help out there. Go to your doctor and ask what can be done or just quit cold turkey like I said it is only at the most a month days may go by slow but it gets better each and every day! If anyone is going through this like me I would be happy to talk to them on the phone or online because talking to someone who has been there or is going through it helps. My husband detoxed from heroin for goodness sakes … a whole month of hell and he did it. You have to get yourself AWAY from what you are addicted to he went to Georgia to live with his grandparents 800 miles away from where he was getting it and I would not know him today if he hadn’t! There are amazing things that happen when you quit. Remember for all of you religious people out there, God has a plan for you and you are altering that plan by taking these medications or whatever. I am staying strong just knowing this.
Dumb Ass Says:
You are idiots! Kratom isn’t bad, but far to expensive! Heroin is cheaper and as about as addictive… Only reason Kratom works to get you off opiates, is due to the fact it is a fucking opiate dipshit mother fuckers…
Jun 27, 2008, 12:48 amDumb Ass Says:
To God Freak,
He has nothing to do with this!
Jun 27, 2008, 12:50 amAnonymous Says:
Kratom is not a pure Mu opiate receptor agonist like morphine, which is why it is easier to detox from than other opiates. Of course if you use it every day for a year you will get withdrawal. I used kratom for 3 years, taking a break of a few days once every few weeks, usually because my shipment didn’t arrive on time. Regardless of the reason for these breaks, it prevented me from developing a dependency. Stay away from extracts and taper off of it and you will be fine.
Jun 27, 2008, 10:08 pmAnonymous Says:
i want off kratom and opiates so much i can taste it, every time i dose. i’ve used my opiate prescription much too quickly every month for years, then subbed into straight kratom leaf until the next scrip, then all over again. i don’t feel any highs from the kratom, barely from the opiates anymore, but the wd’s are horrible. worse from the opiates. i went off them all together once, after easing off the dose on kratom for several days, and it was 24-36 hours of hell, followed by a very rubbery free feeling. i stayed off two weeks until - my next scrip came my way. then since it’s been the same old pattern. i started into addiction after two car accidents for which i was prescribed the opiates. they never chased off the pain for long enough which is why i started taking them more and more quickly. now, finally after over 5 years, i don’t dose to get rid of pain, but rather, with kratom, to get rid of withdrawal sypmtoms, and with opiates because i’ve become addicted to the high that i can barely feel. i don’t know what my answer is. first, stop getting the scrips. second, i don’t want to go through the pain of quitting so quickly, so i’m wondering if i can record to the milligram how much kratom i take, and at what intervals, and slowly, slowly, taper off. those kind of withdrawal symptoms are uncomfortable, but tolerable. but after reading here and elsewhere, it won’t be suboxone like i’d been hoping would work. I DO NOT WANT SOME OTHER DRUG TO TAKE OVER. I JUST WANT TO BE FREE!
Jun 27, 2008, 4:46 pmMOBLUES Says:
hello to all, I would like to ask and talk to other folks who enjoy and have enjoyed enhanced kratom products? I see that this uei, which I started was only to help w/ my work levels, also as described to help w/ anxiety and pain of working all day in harsh conditions. I now see that this great plant has become a favorite to my body, and towards all the uses I described, I was wondering if anyone else has seen really bad withdrawl friom uei, or kratom in general? I only wanted to be herbal, not an addict.. I’m vbery strong minded and healthy, just after not having any uei for less than a day, triggers the beginning of a bad issue for me, as I’m not a junkie, and hate pills. I never knew that this day would come, when I would have to face the piper. Thanks, UEI., LOVER/JUNKIE??
Jun 27, 2008, 5:35 pmDuality Says:
Hello ,I would like to say be careful with this plant,its not as bad as other substancest o withdrawl from,but i would not say its good fun exp.I would recommend that only use this once a month if at all.
Jun 27, 2008, 8:29 pmI recommend that people who are using stronger substances to use this and then come off it,because i have used this for 5-6 month on came off it a few times in that time and the withdrawl must last over a month.and the cravings are worse than cig ones and i smoked over 6 year ,been quit 7 month though
Good luck lol
blekdeni Says:
to Prev Kratom Addict as of 2 days ago Says:
Jun 27, 2008, 6:30 pmhey man,
you sound like na sponsor to me…
You said that you are in 2nd day of detox,in what i dont believe you,koz if u really are u wouldnt be here preaching us ur stories about God has plan for everyone and you are staying strong just knowing that…
man,just here yourself..i know you NA people,just blah blah most of you..
there are very few normal NA person others has others mental problems,not drugs…
4 years Says:
I can contribute, I can no longer keep my mouth shut about this. There is pressure on the net to keep discussion of Kratom addiction and withdrawal quiet, so others can continue to enjoy a legal high, and the sellers can continue to sell. I started using Kratom 4 years ago, at first just infrequently. I found it relaxed me and helped me unwind after work. I frequently would overanalyze the day and find it hard to sleep. At times I would drink some alcohol to alleviate this, but the hangover was not good the next morning. I then tried Phenibut, also got addicted to this, but was able to quit, just didn’t sleep much, but no other withdrawal symptoms. Then I started Kratom, at first it was just nightly. At times I would run out, usually waiting for another order to arrive in the mail, the first night was bad, and I would usually drink alcohol to get thru it. The next morning I would just get on with it. However about a year ago, I lost my job during the crash and was hanging around the house more, I started doing Kratom earlier in the day, often at times first thing in the morning. Soon I was taking Kratom up to 4 times a day. Then I ran out and it was terrible, for 2 days I gruelled thru it, fear, anxiety, terrible depression and sadness, hopelessness, restless leg syndrome, hot then cold then hot, sweating, time taking forever. So I drank alcohol and probably nearly died of alcohol poisoning, but anything rather than face that…in fact all the reports of people who have tolerated the withdrawal you will find they had some valium or something else to carry them thru. The only hope for me was when I went on holiday for 10 days, I tried to estimate how much Kratom I would need while away, I underestimated and found myself in a far-away place with not enough. I had to calculate and divide my doses. I split my Kratom up into small portions which I would take every 4-5 hours while awake, and usually you can make it 8-10 hours while sleeping. These portions were not enough to feel an effect just removed the anxiety. I was successful with this, but after the holiday I went back to normal sizes. Point is that tapering can be helpful, but you have to be very disciplined, and chances are if your the personality type that gets addicted to things like Kratom, chances are you are not going to be able to be that disciplined on your own. Now I know I need help, I will maybe try this Suboxone treatment, anything because this Kratom has made me a prisioner, I cannot go anywhere without carrying an appropriate amount of Kratom, this makes me scared of going overseas to visit relatives because if customs seizes my Kratom I am going to have anxiety. The only issue is all the treatment is focus on the pills and heroin, I am concerned if I talk to a professional they will not have heard of this Kratom and will not know how to treat me right. I just need something to block the w/d’s and let me get on. So thanks for the link, I will give this to the professional when I go to discuss my additiction.
Jun 27, 2008, 11:42 pmBilly Blue Eye Says:
Two years ago I switched from Dr. script pain associated OC’s to Kratom with the intention of self detox…everyone is different, I found the WD’s unmanageable…Iboagaine saved me from the pain of long term WD’s, really a miracle…
Jun 27, 2008, 8:31 am4 years Says:
Really ibogaine, I used alot of psychedelics in the past, but now with this addiction I fear if I took psychedelics I would have a bad trip because I would think about the problem of my addiction too much. Can you give more info on this method?
Jun 27, 2008, 6:36 pmKicked Kratom Says:
I appreciate the honest perspectives of advocates and critics of kratom. There is absolutely no reason on a forum that has the potential to help people to be disrespectful towards the views of others.
Jun 27, 2008, 12:30 amI was using about 4 ounces of kratom per week for about a year and then went cold turkey. I had all of the symptoms: depression, anxiety, cold and hot sweats, insomnia, muscle spasms etc. If you are a person that CAN moderate substances, kratom has many benefits worth exploring. If you have an addictive personality you should stay away from it. Small amounts of xanax greatly helped the withdrawal symptoms. After week two, everything was great. No depression or anything. Exercise, if you aren’t too depressed to get out of the house, is another great treatment. Take it one day at a time. Suddenly and mysteriously,,,,,,, you’ll be fine.
Justin Says:
I know I’m late here, but this is a good forum. I’m glad to see that I’m not alone in facing Kratom addiction. I too only take about 4 ounces a week, but I have used about 4 or so times a day for a year( maybe more) and after facing detox once before for three days I haven’t had the heart to go through it again but I know I am a prisoner of this stuff if I don’t. There may be a handful of folks out there that really can take drugs sparingly, but I know that I and many others cannot. Kratom is addictive, it does give nasty withdrawl symptoms and you should be careful if you use it. I know that this stuff will be illegal in a few years. It’s cheap, it’s effective at getting you high and it’s addictive. I’m going to try to taper off it and take Kava at night to help me sleep. Restless leg was miserable last time I went through it.
Jun 27, 2008, 9:40 pmDuality Says:
Bump
Jun 27, 2008, 9:22 pmcan anyone give any more updates of the kratom use,i am quiting again
sean Says:
I am terribly addicted to Kratom and spend a great deal of money on it and the withdrawal is as bad to me as heroin although I was never an “addict” I have had some habits. Its debilitating and I have to call in sick to work if I am withdrawaling. I have heard the at Suboxone successfully quelled several Kratom addictions. Dont try it… Its great and its highly addictive and costs a ton of money. I see some value in it for HEROIN addicts I started using it recreationally and it was one of the biggest and most expensive mistakes in my life. F-k Kratom, I am actually going to lobby for it to be a controlled substance because the fact that its legal makes you think there is no consequence. So the withdrawl lasts that long?
Jun 27, 2008, 1:21 amDuality Says:
In my opinion but i bet when i say this loads of people will come on and say the oposite,Also from what i have seen on forums people seem to WD then say it only lasts for 4 days but they end up using kratom again around this time so how do they know how long it lasts ??
I think that kratom withdrawl lasts a long time (i have exp with opium i will add)
firstly i will discribe the withdrawl in my view on it and i have withdrawn from it lots of time,what gets me is the cravings they are unreal.
When i withdrawl from it I feel physical sick for about 14 days plus then that part ends.
FOr the mental sidearound day 5 i feel depressed ,anxity, obsessive thoughts,around day 10 i feel like i am getting over it,then around day 17 i feel mentally shit again,then when i get up to day 25ish i seem to even out,but i cant get kratom out of my mind,,,anyway hope that makes sense.
Anyway as the above poster said the only way out of this is to make it illigal,I agree but i would miss it .
Jun 27, 2008, 1:17 pmDon't do kratom Says:
Kratom is fun for awhile… then the fun turns into an addiction. After about 8 months of heavy use, I experienced horrible withdrawals for five days, including restless legs and arms (seriously, they had to be moving around and felt electrified, 24/7), irritability, fatigue, and insane insomnia! The insomnia is the worst. You’re exhausted but you can’t sleep. Try doing anything after no sleep in 4 days. The withdrawals may not be as bad as heroin, but they are BAD. Don’t believe anyone that says it’s like running out of coffee. The withdrawals are about 10 times worse than quitting smoking. You really want another dose just to get through the withdrawals, but after the 4th day or so you no longer have pangs for Kratom. Then, there is also the diarrhea and depression- though the depression has been pretty mild for me thus far. I know others have had severe depression after quitting.
Jun 27, 2008, 4:23 pmFritz Says:
Kratom is addictive. I started with some gramm occasionally and it was great. Even when I noticed the danger, slowly I took it more often.
Jun 27, 2008, 7:25 pmSince I had a cheap and very good source for it ( 250gramms powder for 55 Euro) and I thought about myself, I am disciplined (Weightlifting and Meditation for 25 years), so it will be no real problem to quit it.
Ha, Ha - laughs the devil. But God is stronger then him.
I took it for 1,5 years on a daily basis, in the end usually between 8-10 gramm in three or four shots.
I never took extracts (since I read stories from people who pushed the limits quite far with this).
But I decided to quit it. It was enough. I do not like it to feel like a “junkie”.
So here the old technic:
Every day I was taking one gramm less then before.
The first week without any Kratom I could not sleep, felt hot and cold. It was discomfortable but bearable for me. I drank sometimes two beers for sleepinghelp.
Now it is two weeks ago since I took the last Kratom.
Still on a subtle plane I feel not recovered fully. But it is getting better and better. Usually I run on sundays 12 Km. This helps me to get endorphins homemade into the bodysystem. If you do real sports you recover more quickly I found out.
It was a good lesson for me and I am glad I was not on real opiates ( I know some of them also from own experience).
Greetings from Germany
Auf die Dauer hilft nur Power.
Fritz
josh Says:
You should really do your research before posting this shit.
Suboxone is meant to be taken for no more than a week. A quick taper will get you off opiates without getting you addicted to suboxone. Doctors rarely tell you that because they want you hooked.
As for people mixing opiates with subs… no. Unlike methadone, sub blocks your opiate receptors making other opiates ineffective.
Kratom withdrawal can be nearly as severe as any other opiod. If you need help, suboxone will get you there. Take 8mg on day 1, 6mg on 2, 4mg on 3, 2mg on 4, 1mg on 5, .5mg on 6 and 7. It takes about 3 weeks of daily use to get hooked on subs. You may have a bit of cramping and mild insomnia for a couple days after stopping subs, but nothing like true withdrawal. And definitely nowhere near as bad as kratom withdrawal.
Jun 27, 2008, 5:44 pmBryan Says:
A WORD ON TAPERING:
Useful because, psychologically speaking, from Day 1 of your taper you will feel you’ve quit already. You don’t take enough to get an effect, only enough to feel not-sick.
It’s then just a case of sticking to it.
Plan it out, do it gradually, it can be done. You will emerge feeling good.
I’ve successfully tapered off benzos, pods, pot, kratom and codeine (though not all at once or in that order)
Jun 27, 2008, 5:47 ammat Says:
Date today is June 21 2010, despite what the date says below.
Anyway, here I am free from kratom, feeling great about it, and not craving it at all.
How I did it: I stabilized my daily dose to 7gms*/day, then reduced it by 1gm/day, until I was down to 1gm/day, then I stopped. That was a week ago.
Yes I got a runny nose, slightly achey hands and feet, a general lack of energy, and a vaguely ‘down’ feeling. But not for long at all. I was tempted to take some kratom a couple of times, but resisted.
(If you’re so inclined, some pot, some valium, or some over-the-counter codeine preparations, plus a comfy chair and a movie or two will help take your mind off the withdrawals.)
5 to 7 days and you can be kratom-free. Only 2 of those days did I feel like I had a cold. (And we’ve all had a cold, haven’t we?)
On day 3 of quitting, although I didn’t really feel like it, I went for a long cycle ride, which seemed to kick-start my system into health again. Such a great feeling.
The reason I wanted to quit was due to an up-coming vacation abroad, and I didn’t want to a) travel with it, and b) be thinking about kratom all the time….
*If you’re taking kratom extracts, then you’ll know that you’re taking “the strong stuff” and therefore should expect a bigger payback… I would switch to an ‘average’ strength powdered leaf, and taper from there. You could spread the dose out over the day, morning, afternoon, evening, if you’re habit is huge.
Like ‘Bryan’ above me says, starting the taper feels like quitting already: no real buzz, no lift, no nodding - but no terrible withdrawals either. That’s the idea. Worked for me.
FYI I’ve been taking about 7gms of ‘average’ kratom every morning, and quite often every afternoon, for about 2 years.
I’m amazed at how much I don’t miss it, and how stupid I was to let myself fall into the habit…
That subconscious thought: “hmmm I fancy a little kratom” is just your body’s reaction to mild withdrawals beginning. Looking back, that is how I woke up feeling every morning: slightly achey, which of course taking some kratom quickly cures. And then 2 years go by.
Those achey morning feelings have pretty much vanished since I stopped the kratom a week ago.
The only negative is my resentment towards the kratom sellers who for sure know it’s addictive, and are happy to help you maintain your kratom habit once you’re in the loop.
Kratom has its uses, for sure, but can so easily become a pointless and expensive habit. Especially if you don’t actually need to take the stuff.
So if you’re thinking of quitting, go for it. You won’t regret it, you will feel GOOD for doing it, better than how you’re feeling now and what’s led you to be reading this page on kratom addiction.
Jun 27, 2008, 10:56 amNot taking Kratom Says:
I noticed my husband has been reading this forum, he’s been taking using Kratom for over 2 years. It started as a replacement for his vicodin habit. He has detoxed himself off of it a few times now and each time is miserable. I’m not sure of the exact amounts he takes or what variations of it,but it’s generally a teaspoon full in them morning, another at lunch and typically one in the evening. He doesn’t get any kind of high from it, just energy and a “normal” feeling.
Jun 27, 2008, 2:59 pmHe’s finally feeling, again, like he’s sick of being addicted to it, doesn’t like feeling unhealthy all the time. He started decreasing his dosage yesterday, we are in for at least a month of misery. My only hope is that this will truly be the last time. For his sake, especially.
There are ways of feeling good, of dealing with depression and anxiety, without medicating yourself….you just have to want it bad enough and be willing to do the work to get there. I can say this from experience. I spent about 15 years of my life depressed, was on several different high doses of anti-depressants and then spent 6 months abusing pot, cocaine and oc’s…I am now completely drug free, with the help of a Recovery program and intense work. It’s an inside job. It can happen, no one is hopeless or helpless.
Zach Says:
The people comparing Kratom with coffee are extremely stupid. It’s true that the leaf tea is not as addictive as other opiates/opioids and has a “ceiling” of sorts where additional Kratom does not give addition effects and makes you nauseous. But it is still a mu opioid agonist and the withdrawal is essentially the same, but with lesser stomach issues from my experience.
But Kratom extracts, particularly full spectrum tincture, is completely indistinguishable from other “hard” opioids like heroin or oxycodone. Your tolerance rises very fast, and when I was using a pretty large amount of FST extract every day 40mg of oxycodone would do nothing but bring me to baseline. The extract removes the ceiling that plain leaf tea has. Is it stupid? Of course it is. But getting addicted to any drug is stupid, and most of us who do have some other issues with depression that drive us to addiction in the first place. I initially became addicted while depressed after graduating and having trouble finding a job. When I finally found a good job, I had already been addicted for about a year and couldn’t stop without withdrawals that would make me miss work. I tried to quit recently and was clean for about 2 weeks, but after acute withdrawal I still suffered from extreme depression and insomnia and was completely unable to focus at work (I’m a programmer).
I’m considering suboxone just so I don’t have to take something every 4-5 hours (kratom has a very short half-life), and it will also be cheaper, despite it definitely costing quite a bit. I’ll be going to graduate school in about a year or so, and before I leave I’ll have the month+ period necessary to detox properly, but until then I just don’t want to have to think about addiction, and having one pill that keeps me feeling “normal” for an entire day would be a huge step up.
Anyways, please do not listen to those who say anyone who becomes addicted to kratom is stupid, or that kratom is no different than coffee/any other substance. Kratom is an opioid agonist, and you will become addicted to it with regular use. There is a good chance that you will at some point move up to extracts, as they are also legal and will make you feel the same way kratom leaf used to make you feel. This is stupid, but as any addict knows you’re simply not yourself sometimes, especially when facing the terror of withdrawals. The only difference to speak of between FST/UEI kratom extracts and heroin is that heroin is cheaper. Do not assume that because kratom is “natural” and legal that it is safe or less addictive than other illegal drugs. Poppy pod tea is also “natural,” but it’s even more dangerous than kratom.
Jun 27, 2008, 6:50 pmBri Says:
I totally cannot relate to what any of you people are staying when it comes to Kratom. I have taken Kratom for approximately 3 years. I only take about 1/2 teaspoon five times per day. This helps tremendously with anxiety and depression. I have gone 3 months straight taking the Kratom, and then not had any for weeks at a time. I’ve never withdrawn from this stuff. I miss it psychologically (in terms of a thought like, “I wish I had some Kratom”) but that is the extent of it. There are no symptoms of physical withdrawal. All I can figure is that most of you have very addictive personalities and are suffering from chronic anxiety disorders or depression that is compounded when you stop taking Kratom. Seems to me that most of you are possibly consuming way too much Kratom and it’s causing you to have very intense cravings/withdrawals both psychologically and physically …you follow me? To the person that said it’s worse than smoking cigarettes….not true….Nicotine is the most addictive drug in the world besides Heroin, and I haven’t kicked that habit. I have never been addicted to anything but Nicotine….In my teen years I tried lots of things…but drew the line on Heroin and Crack. I have never had a opiate addiction (which may play a part in some of you getting addicted to Kratom)…and to the poster that said Kratom is an opiate….you are sadly mistaken. Kratom doesn’t even have the same molecular structure as an opiate…it just hits on the same parts of the brain.
I also want to say one more thing…You all may want to check the suppliers your using for your Kratom. Rumors have floated around about possible Opium spikes of Kratom in prepacked packages at head shops or capsules….but most reputable suppliers would never do this. If you want a clean, reputable, Kratom supplier I will be glad to refer you to mine.
Kratom is a Godsend for most people….just use responsibly
Jun 27, 2008, 3:52 pmBri Says:
I also wanted to add that I have never felt the need to increase my dosage of Kratom or move up to extracts…EVER….Some of you have to take responsibility for your own addictive personalities and realize that not all substances affect everyone the same way. You can’t always blame the substance for your psychological and physical symptoms. It’s easy to say, when you use a substance, that the substance (when you don’t take it) is causing you anxiety, muscle cramps, or depression…but truth is things can be going wrong in your brain that are causing these symptoms…for example…stress is known to cause all the symptoms I just mentioned….Alone….people go to doctors all the time complaining of these symptoms who aren’t abusing drugs…Restless Leg Syndrome is known to cause the feelings of having to move your legs and body (or stretch) constantly while in bed….
Problems like these are what causes many people to start abusing drugs…the proper term is “self-medicate”….It’s not always the substance causing the problem…rather…people use the substance to get rid of the problem. I realize this is not always so for everyone. Only “you” know how you were or felt before you starting using a substance.
Jun 27, 2008, 4:02 pmChris Says:
Hi Guys,
Regarding Kratom, I’m not here to contradict anyone else or negate anyone’s opinion but I will tell my story. I have abused opiates for 20 years. I finally ended up in rehab for 6 months after loosing basically everything. I was on Suboxone for 2 years and I would say it can be a life saver. I also found it hard to abuse (like any addict I tried). Like the addict I am I soon realized that less is indeed more (the only way to feel anything on it is to keep your dose as low as possible). It ruined H for me which was the whole point. You just can’t get high on it at all.
So I can speak about Kratom as someone who has abused opiates, used Suboxone, and abused Kratom. Kratom is a opiate agonist i.e. it activates the mu receptors. The 1st time I tried some that was not bunk I had the intense itching and euphoria that I felt when I first used opiates as a teenager. It was as if it was my 1st time so there was something unique perhaps, or maybe that I had been sober for over 1 year. Anyway, what a stupid thing to do. I have found Kratom withdrawal to be as bad as most any opiate withdrawal. OK, not as bad as H, but just as bad as most any other opiate I’ve ever had to quit for sure, if not worse.
I know if your like me and your reading this (and you’ve not tried Kratom) you’re thinking “Cool - I need to get some”. Be warned. Good quality Kratom, which I believe from most posts is actually pretty rare, is a powerful opiate. I say rare because of the 12 vendors I have ordered from only one is truly “strong”, all the others do nothing or very little at all which is why I believe so many people seem to say it does nothing. Believe me, if you had some good, real UEI or Enhanced Bali you would realize this shit can be more powerful then vicodin for sure, IMHO. No offense to anyone who disagrees with me, your entitled to your opinion of course and I mine.
So, if your a real addict like me, you might want to stay away from this stuff. I would say it’s probably better (well, it’s legal at least) then other opiates in the sense that it’s hard to OD and even then you simply feel like ass, I don’t think you can die on it. But you can develop a full on addiction i.e. you need to do it every 6 hours or full opiate withdrawal sets in. I have experienced all types of opiate wd and this is as bad as most any of them. Last time I tried I did not sleep a wink for 5 days, had leg kicks, horrible anxiety, the whole deal. I felt like I wanted to die. Finally I gave in and ordered more from my vendor. You know a website selling the real shit because us addicts will NEED it to come in 24 hours FedEX and those selling the real shit know it and exploit this fact. I find that the bogus bunk shit is the stuff that comes in 4-5 days at best.
I started with regular Bali, moved to Enhanced, and occasionally use UEI and the tinctures. I can nod on the latter 2 in all seriousness. It’s can be frighteningly strong in a wonderful and horrible way. I hate to say this because I know people reading this will run out and get some. Please just stick with the regular bali or non enhanced stuff. You will see the statement again and again from the experienced Kratom users that your tolerance will go through the roof with the extracts (of you will pay twice as much for bunk from most vendors). It’s true, do that stuff for 2 days and suddenly the other stuff won’t work. I need to take 30 grams of Enhanced Bali ever day just to feel normal. From the only vendor (of over 12 I’ve tried in the past) this runs $1/gram or $30/day. Yes, that’s $900/month to maintain. Think about what your getting into if your a true addict like me. Yes, I know, some will say “what and idiot!!!” What can I say, if you’re an true addict you know that once you start a habit you do it all day, everyday until you quit. I may be an idiot, this is true, but I’m not spending this money on something that feels kinda OK. This shit feels as good as any opiate I’ve done with the exceptions of the real strong stuff (H & oxy) which in the end is no fun as a habit anyway. This is the kind if habit you could have for years and your life would be OK I think, as long as you maintained.
So if your going to get into this, be warned. The good news is that unless you know what your doing, or where to order at least, you’ll probably get weak crap that will be quite unimpressive and you’ll think those of us posting stories like this are stupid lightweights. Whatever. I hate how people are so judgmental, just because I was an H addict doesn’t make me somehow more “real” then anyone else. Just like we can feel different drugs differently we can also feel withdrawal differently. If your going through withdrawal pain only you know how bad it is. But remember even though it doesn’t seem like it life will get better soon enough, hang in there! I could not believe how good I felt once I finally got sober. And now I’m not sober. A Kratom addict is an addict plain and simple. For those who say suboxone would be crazy for Kratom addicts you really don’t know what your talking about with all respect. I’ve been on subs (for H) and if I had some it would be helpful to get off this shit. This may not be H addiction but it’s just as bad or worse then any pill addiction I’ve ever had and for that I would be prescribed subs. My personal opinion is that if I haven’t gone through it myself personally I should not have a strong opinion on it but that’s just me.
For those of you who are currently opiate addicts who just can’t quit consider getting suboxone. If you like me you need to hear that it will still get you kinda high to go try it at all. It will for the 1st week and after that it’s like a lot of opiates we abuse, it makes you feel functional but not high per se. Keep your dose lower (i.e. 2 mg/day) and you will still feel a little bit each day, or at least I did.
Some of you are gonna do kratom, perhaps because of what I just said. The truth is the truth and it can get you pretty high if it’s good stuff, which in my experience is not easy to find. I would say it’s probably one the safest opiates you could do and it probably won’t ruin your life. I find total sobriety almost impossible and I do find with good quality kratom I do not crave anything else which is actually pretty wonderful. But don’t kid yourself that this stuff can turn into real addiction.
Jun 27, 2008, 5:52 amYOYOYOYOYOYOYo Says:
The first time i bought kratom i definitely got sick, and based on other opiates it felt as if it was simply because i took to much. This last time i got kratom, it was an extract, and even though i was forwarned i still decided to partake in that little gooey turd ball. Its effects were super mild and lasted around 1 hour tops with majority of it presenting a headache. I saw potential however even if only for a few moments during the experience, my search is still on for the right stuff.
Jun 27, 2008, 6:30 pm